Where would we been without prompts? No seriously

Secondary schools are responsible for way more fish.

What should be taught in college? In the article What Should College Teach by Stanley Fish, published by the New York Times in 2014; Fish states that english teachers from middle and high school are the blame for college students not being able to write write complete sentences or analyze them when they go on to college. He then goes on and states that college professors shouldn't have to go back and reteach something college students should already know, Fish is right about holding secondary schools responsible for it, but he is wrong when he says that professors shouldn't teach students how to analyze. I don't believe colleges should teach you sentence structure because that is something we should know by now even if our middle schools and high schools did a bad job on teaching how to. No college students wants to feel as if they were back in 6th grade.

  

How I feel after reading prompts.

Though I disagree with sentences being taught I do believe in analyzing being taught in college. Yes this is something we should know how to do as well. But when it comes to prompts it's a whole different ball park. In high school and middles school we're so used to using the 5 paragraph method that we're not so familiar with prompts. We believe all we need is an Intro, three body paragraphs and a conclusion. It's not like that in college. They expect more from you and how can we give them what they want if we don't know how to analyze prompts? This is why college professors should spend more time on teaching students how to analyze prompts. 

That's right I might be onto something

I came to this conclusion during my research for my English 1109 project on what we thought the most important thing was in college writing. I started by observing a tutoring session at the OSU Newark Writing Studio center. The session belong to a freshman student name Ciara. I witnessed Ciara struggle with ideas that were already in the prompts. If she would of just re read the prompt while she was brainstorming she could have came to this conclusion sooner. This made me realize what's more important than prompts because that's the reason your writing anyways. Sadly as college students we still don't know how to fully take advantage of prompts and who better teach us how better than the professor who wrote them themselves.

To get more of a idea on what teachers want students to take from prompts , I had a interview through email with a english teacher from the University of Massachusetts. Dr. Leuca who teaches multiple writing classes, she believes that " students should refer to the prompts four times, when first when you received the prompt, again when you start to draft, again when you revise, and , ideally, to do a final check before you submit."I know I know. Who's really going to check their paper four times, but would you rather catch your mistakes yourself or have your professor find them? To get a student view I conducted a survey on Survey monkey, and six out of ten college students that took my survey voted prompts as being the most important thing in writing college. If students feels this way about prompts then teachers should feel the same way and spend more time on it as well.

I think Fish was right about sentences but ours aren't the sentences we need help on. From personal experience if I don't understand something in the prompt I would leave it out and focus on the stuff I do understand. This has caused me to lose a lot of points on papers. Don't be like me you should use your resources and ask someone for help, or try highlighting things you don't know so you can remember to go back and get help and if these don't work try talking to your professor. 

Organization is like a puzzle

In the article What Should Colleges Teach Part 3,  Stanley Fish stated "High schools and middle schools are not teaching writing skills in an effective way." I agree with this statement by Fish because I just graduated from high school in 2017 and I believe that I have learned so much more from Professor Boczkowski in just one semester of college than I learned through middle and high school. Public schools today seem to be focused mainly on teaching to the test instead of preparing students for higher learning. Many writing skills that should be proficient as students begin their college career are mediocre and many times require's extra help from your professors. As college students start their college journey and it becomes evident that their writing skills are not up to par, Fish states that it is the responsibility of the college professors to meet the students at their level and provide instruction that will help them with their future essays. 

A day to celebrate, now to the next chapter 

Professors need to provide students with a framework  that will allow them to introduce their subject with a strong thesis. Then the student should follow with detailed writing that provides evidence and analysis of the topic. College professors should help students to leave their audience with strong concluding paragraphs that recap the main idea of the essay. One of the most important skills that professors need to leave students with is the critical task of citing sources in order to give credit to works and sources written by authors.

Fish believes writing begins with composing a simple sentence and then developing it into more complex sentences which provides further detail. This is compared to providing a strong foundation and then building upon it to develop your analysis of the essay.  He also stated that the Catholic schools seem to be doing a better job of teaching the writing process. They seem to be able to build a better foundation and provide their students the opportunity to practice and perfect their writing.

In English 1109, we were faced with the question Why is organization important to college writing? Through various research gathering assignments, such as the survey on SurveyMonkey, teacher interview, and the tutorial observation in the Ohio State - Newark Writers Studio. I found that the following areas are what current college students struggle with the most: planning, detailed paragraphs, and proper citations. 


I believe that planning and outlining your topic and ideas is key to organization. This allows you to order your main topics and write paragraphs that are both detailed and use transitions to help make your essay flow in a logical sequence. Breaking up the essay into manageable parts in an outline form, helps to not make the whole process seem overwhelming. The outline provides a framework just as you do when starting a puzzle. 

Piece by piece a framework is created

Developing detailed paragraphs helps the reader to visualize what the writer is trying to explain. When the writer's main purpose is to describe, they must give details about the topic in an organized and specific way, in order, to provide clarity to the reader. I feel that in order to explain, it is essential to give details in a chronological order from the beginning to the end. If the writer fails to do this, then the reader will be lost within the remainder of the paper and the meaning will be lost.

I believe the most critical part of writing an essay is to cite and format your research information correctly. Since much of college writing is researching and quoting sources that give proof to how and where the information is found, it is necessary for students to give credit to their sources in order to not plagiarize. Students also need to remember when they use words directly from an author, to use quotation marks to quote and properly give credit to the author with their last name, parentheses, and page number. Organizing and keeping track of your sources is a key component that will help you as you write your bibliography for your works cited page.

Fish concluded that in order for students to have a strong writing background, it is necessary for them to be not only be exposed to reading throughout their younger year but that they must be given the opportunity to practice the writing process. Students must learn the foundations of the writing process. Learning to outline, write detailed paragraphs in order to give full meaning to your topic, and correctly cite sources are important parts of college writing. I know that for me, the more I am forced to practice my writing skills, the better they have become.  

Contemplation: Sentence or Citation?

What is most important to becoming a great college writer? Sure there are many different aspects that tie together that you can do correctly to make you good, but getting down to the nitty gritty, there should be a certain aspect of writing you believe is most important that you often end up focusing on more than all the other elements of writing. I am attending the Ohio State University at Newark in my first year of college.  In an assignment through my English 1109 class, we were introduced to Stanley Fish. In his blog What Should Colleges Teach? Part 3, he states that the most important aspect in writing is that organizing and structuring sentences. He stresses that this has become the biggest issue and most important because of how students are taught in high school. He ends up with students in his class that didn't learn basic writing skills while in high school.

While I agree with Fish that yes, making sure that you are able to provide organized sentences, I believe that it is more important to be able to correctly cite the sentences you have in order to give credit where due, and to show why what is in your sentences is important because you wouldn't want people thinking the information your giving them was false or unreliable.

Really though, why should we believe you?

For my English 1109 class, we were told to pick what we felt was most important and give good reasons as to why we felt that way through an Analytical Research Essay. Like Fish, I was able to gather data for my assignment. With his gathering, he had sampled answers from students about being able to craft good sentences with random words.

For me, I had surveyed students on which part they felt they struggled with the most in college and 60% of them ranging from all grades whether it be freshmen or seniors had agreed that correctly citing was the biggest problem for them. At the Writing Studio located on my college campus I was able to sit down and observe  Peer Writing Consultant Elijah Lithuluxa and student Trey during his writing help session. Trey was struggling with writing his citations out correctly. He had all of the information he wanted to say but wasn’t able to give credit correctly because he wasn’t citing right, which made his information useless.

When I was in high school we did talk about citations just like we talked about writing good sentences, but like Fish claimed, good sentence structure wasn't covered as in depth as it should have been, likewise with citations. Both are very important, I do think you need to know how to craft your sentences first with the information you are going to be using but it is more important to prove what you're saying so people will believe your points.

Take that, Fish!

Fish says structuring your sentences is the most important to college writing and I agree that yes it is important, but not MOST important. What do we do in college? We’re required to spew information back to our professors that has meaning and isn’t just bogus we rattled off the tops of our head. So where did we get this good information from then that we are creating into our own sentences that Fish talks about? That’s right, other people. In a nutshell, all college writing is, is showing meaning through your paper weather it be using statistics, persuading using an other's credibility to back up your own idea, or using sources to inform the reader of your knowledge gained and what you have learned from your sources. THERE IS VIRTUALLY NO PAPER THAT YOU CAN WRITE IN COLLEGE THAT DOESN’T NEED CITED!

Citations should be something everyone is able to do correctly. It should be taught, and taught extensively as soon as you’re required to write papers for any kind of schooling, in AT LEAST high school. Nonetheless, it should be required to be able to come to college. For every class we take in college, there is going to be a paper that we write that has some type of citation in it.

Citing is the most important part in college writing.

There are no loopholes to get out of citing.

It has to be done every single time.

If done incorrectly, everything you say is wrong, or is plagiarism.

Knowing how to cite is your key to getting through college.

Mic drop, Kimberly out.

Feedback? No where without it

Stanley fish the writer of What should colleges Teach? Part 3, believes there is three main things that should be focused on in college. The first one being ''students should get to have their own variety and pattern of language''. The second thing he believes is important is sentence structure organization,and the third thing is the students should set up how they choose to learn things. He believes being able to do things on your own is key.


Fish has many great ideas, but i believe without feedback nun of this is able to be done correctly. according to the university of North Carolina feedback is ''constructive steps to improve on your writing'' feedback is there to help you improve on something your unsure about. So, Stanley second thing about sentence structure would not be anything with out feedback. we can all agree sentence structure is important, but i know we can also say we have had some what of a struggle to put these good sentence together. So the best idea would be to receive feedback from anyone you can receive it from.


In my observation at the Ohio state Newark writers studio i seen how important feedback was to a student. The student received feedback from a tutor which is also a peer ,and she helped him understand feedback from his professor.This studio is what colleges need all around . receiving feedback from a peer is very important. i feel often times colleges do not give the students this opportunity. Feedback is one of the most important parts for college writing in my eyes.There is so much new to discover. Getting feedback can make your paper do a three sixty, and take you to a new direction.

Fish discusses the importance of sentence structure, but i think that just something small. NO Feedback is like having a fish out of water. Feedback is a way to get good structure on your sentences. Without feedback your unable to get the full meaning of what the main focus is your trying to prove. when creating sentence you want to know what to improve on, so when these sentences come together in a paper they are well prepared and written. Nothing is perfect the first time around so why not receive feedback.

I know for me recently i had to write a paper for my English class. This paper needed to show the importance of feedback. I was some what at times unsure where my paper was going. I then decided to proofread my own paper in which i knew i was sure not going to find anything wrong. I then decided that why not receive feedback from my professor the one who wants me to write this paper.

From then on my paper begin to form into what i wanted it to. The main thing was getting to realize that i needed feedback. i was first very scared to ask because i didn't want to seem like i didn't know what i was doing, but it worked and helped a lot. if i was never told from my professor if i needed feedback i probably would of never received it. Feedback is on of the major key things in college with out it you cant get anywhere.

Feedback is something that everyone should know about. Not just in college but everywhere, but i do believe college is the number one important place where feedback starts to come in handy. In college its where you life starts, this is what is going to make or break your future. So if people do not know what feedback is and how to receive it college is the place for it to be discussed. I know for me feedback has become my best friend, and i know if others knew how to receive it to the fullest it would be their best friend too. so, when nothing else seems important just know feedback is.

Keeping Up With Your Topic

   On September 7th in 2009 at  9:30 pm a man by the name of Stanley Fish posted a blog called  What Should Colleges Teach? Part 3. In this article he expresses that sentences are basically the most important thing when it comes to college writing. He made two different types of exercises to help students' with " the most important part of college writing. the first exercise has students do a simple task, which is to replace nonsense words with better words. Easy right? Then the second part of his exercise to better sentence stature is to have students analyze their own work hiring their expectations.    Fish says that high school and middle school students have not being taught to write effective way'‘.  Meaning many students comes into college writing barley knowing anything, which is a reason for his exercises.  Fish feels as though if students are taught more effectively about composition of college writing, starting from, and the most important (to Fish), sentence structure. 

Sorry Fish I disagree

  The reason why i disagree with Fish is , Because during my 1109 English class I had to do some research on College Writing and i want you to take notes on what i found. I believe that staying on topic is the most important to College Writing . To support my theory I have  I conducted a survey called College Writing this was meant for college students so I could  gather their experiences with what they struggle with as a writer . In this survey I learned that hardly any students have trouble " forming a sentence" they have trouble with staying on topic when writing. I also sat and observed a student getting help with this problem. So, after I gathered all my information from multiple different sources , this is the  list I came up with to make sure you kept focus on your paper with one topic. 

1. To make sure you pick the right topic       
2. Make sure you refer to sources
3. Make a reverses outline
   

   

To make sure you have picked the right topic for your paper you should pick the one with the most "show, not tell" details. Meaning the one topic that you will have a lot to write about. This will ensure you that your paper will be full of details about your topic and nothing else.

   Also, you want to make sure you refer to the sources you have used for your paper. If you can site your source with your topic that's how you know they go together and are on the same topic. There are many useful resources out there, you just must make sure you use the correct ones.

  Finally, you want to make s a reverse outline to make sure that your paper only focuses on that one topic. A reverse outline is a process where you take away all of the supporting writing and is left with your paper's main points or main ideas. This will help you see if all your supporting details actually stays on topic with you actually topic. 

  To back up my " I Say" I interviewed a Kelly Whitney she help me prove my reasoning's were correct . When asked "What is some tips or advice you would give to new college students about college writing......" Whitney stated " Having a connection to or interest in the topic will allow the student to get the most out of the writing as possible...." After interviewing Whitney it made me feel good that someone else realized how important staying on topic is. 

 When writing a paper, I say "keeping your focus on one topic" is very important and should be taught a lot more. Students would have an easier journey when writing papers if they knew what they were going to write about before hand and how to stay on that one topic. Fish says that sentences are the most important thing that should be taught in College Level Writing , but if a student does not have anything to write about there will be no sentences. Now ask yourself what is really important ..

Professor Feedback, Yes it Guides you!

Stanley Fish is a writer who argued about the structure of sentences. He stated high school students and college students don't know how to structure a sentence. I totally agree with Stanley Fish.  He states college student's don't have "clean sentences" when writing. Many wonder who is Stanley fish? Is he a teacher? Is he a writer? Is he a creditable source? To answer that question he is a professor at Florida University and has written many books. I would say he is a creditable source

This is where professor feedback comes in. Stanley Fish has stated many students get confused on how to even form a sentence. This is where a professor comes in and gives you feedback o how to fix the problem. I got to observe a student in The writers Studio at Ohio State Newark the beginning of the semester and the tutor gave great feedback to the student with his sentence structure http://newark.osu.edu. Professor feedback can lead a student to go into the right direction. Professor feedback is not talked about enough and students should take advantage of the guidance they have when they  
need help.


I believe students should get feedback and help from the professor. I surveyed 14 people this semester and asked them if they get professor feedback. Only 5 people said they go to there professor and get help the other 9 people stated they are to scared to sit down and show there professor the work they have created. I believe the most important part of college is taking advantage of the resources that are being handed to you. Professors are there to help you. Students can't be perfect and write a flawless paper without a little guidance.



http://waldenwritingcenter.blogspot.com/2016/12/top-tips-for-incorporating-feedback.html and http://waldenwritingcenter.blogspot.com/2016/12/top-tips-for-incorporating-feedback.html
both helped me understanding professor feedback more. You should not be afraid of asking questions. People who ask questions tend to get a better grade then students who just wait till last minute to do the assignment. People don't like to ask questions because they believe there feedback will always come back negative. Students shouldn't worry, even professors make mistakes when writing papers.



I totally agree with Stanley Fish that sentence structure is important. If we didn't know how to write sentences then all the papers students wrote would have to be rewritten all the time. If students need help forming sentence structure this is the time where you should make time to meet with your professor and go over the work you have completed. It is okay to be wrong. When going to your professor they know you are trying and need help. I believe students should always take advantage of the resources they have. Stanley Fish helps you understand that sentence structure is very important to understand.

Common connection between me and Fish

During the semester at Ohio State University in Newark me and my classmates were given multiple assignment that would help each other get better at writing but there were these two assignment one where I would have to learn why sources are important when writing papers and another where I would have to survey random people who are current students of a college or graduates who have graduated in a six-month time frame what is needed to become a good college writer? Some of their answers were to make sure that I do not waste time on the writing assignment and start early on it, and others said to make sure that I have sources to support what I am trying to say or in other words it would be better to have detail in what you are writing which matches with a reading that we were also assigned to do and make a response towards what we had read in a blog. 

Getting better in writing papers over time

The blog post was by man named Stanley Fish "What colleges should teach", where he states his opinion about what colleges should teach and in his column I agree with what Fish is saying where he explains to the reader that colleges should have methods of teaching students how to write better such as having them reading more in order to increase the students’ vocabulary so that they could have more word choices to choose from when writing. Also it was interesting to me how he was discussing the different steps that you could take when you have to write a paper. One thing that I noticed while reading was that he was talking about how reading books is an important method for students to help teach them how to write better, it also teaches them some formatting and grammar skills.

Teaching writing in a earlier time

I agree with what Fish is saying I feel that there is another step missing in his column which is the fact the we actually teach students how to properly write in college, when I feel like it should started at a much earlier time. The reason why I say that is because have you ever met someone that can write or type a paper with ease, or someone that can not type a paper to save their life? Well I’m one of those people that cannot type a long paper with ease. I don’t know why I have such a hard time writing paper’s I guess its because I do not put enough detail in my paper because I feel that I could answer a question or make a statement with just one to five sentences that would answer the question completely.

When you are struggling to write a paper

I still struggle with writing papers and I know that over time I will get better as I continue to take English class and getting help when needed. Lastly another thing that interested me in the article by Fish he speaks about the importance of structure in a sentence and having detail when writing a paper and explaining why its important which really is similar to what I am having trouble with because when I write I have an issue with not writing enough because I feel like I could answer a question or write about something in a very brief way and not having to have like a extended answer on a topic. Even though there are people that I know that write to much and then in the end of their paper they would have to cut some things out and get to the point. And there are people that would have to extend their meaning by including sources to help support what they are trying to say.  I believe that over time I will get better at it and that would make me a better writer overall.

Sentence Structure & Thesis statement

In Stanley Fischer's blog “What Should College Teach?”(part 3), he talks about schools not using effective methods for teaching writing. It puts a burden on college teachers to make up for those missed skills. He wonders what ways teachers can improve a student writing. According to Fish, he believes the most important skill a college student needs to know is sentence structure. I agree with him, but we need to focus on the most important sentence in a paper, a thesis statement.

Fish choice of teaching his class the way he does is really interesting. Like Fish, I would focus my class on sentence structure and thesis which is the most important sentence in a paper. A thesis is defined in The Cambridge Dictionary as “a thesis is also the main idea, opinion, or theory of a speaker or writer, who then attempts to prove it.” Furthermore, Fish course was entirely sentence-structured except for one part. He gave students part of a sentence and told them to add on while looking back to the narrative that has been already developed. In addition, he mentioned using the book called “They say/ I say” which introduces students to the forms of argument. These forms of argument lead to developing your thesis statement. 

A thesis is a necessary skill needed for writing certain papers in college. When structuring your thesis as a beginner, you should do it in a, A, B, and C fashion. A, B, and C represent the three strongest points for your argument. For each paragraph following the thesis statement will have a point that is stated previously. This helps to keep your arguments focused without “fully understanding why” while convincing your readers. Without a good thesis, you’re setting a maze for your readers. 

During the first semester, I had an opportunity to do an observation/interview at the Ohio State University Newark Writer’s Studio. I’ve observed a tutor and a student discussing a paper which gave me an idea what college writing is. In the interview with the tutor, I personally asked him what was the most important aspect of college-level writing and he said thesis. This lead me to discover thesis is a very important factor in writing. 

For my analytical research essay, my topic was a thesis statement. I had an email interview with Professor McCormick discussing the importance of a thesis. He said “thesis is the most important single sentence of a paper. The best theses start late in the process--even and especially if you had a different thesis earlier in the process.” A thesis must have the following attributes; it should be specific, should be arguable, and it should help organize the rest of the paper. 

Fish brings up thesis in a specific way when he says, “you have to start with a simple but deep understanding of the game, which for my purposes is the game of sentence structure.” So you first begin with understanding what a thesis is. A thesis is important in the sense of understanding how to structure a sentence properly, but there are so many aspects of a thesis. The thesis has an impact on writing in many ways, giving you a clear, concise statement of the position you will be defending to an outline of what your paper will be about. 

All in all, I believe Fish method on teaching college classes is great. He should start with the basic steps of forming sentence structures and learning how to write a good thesis. Without the basics, some students from different background attend college and might not have those skills mastered. As said previously, we should focus on forming sentence structures and taking time to develop a thesis statement. I believe this will have a great impact on writing if they go further into higher courses. 

Preparing the Fish

Preparing the Fish

Painting; this is something that is very simular to writing. Most wouldn’t see the connection right away but don’t worry, that’s what I’m here for. Both require thouroughness, patience, preparation, planning, among other things. Also, the little details in one’s painting, whether it be art or work, can be the difference between a good job and a great job.

One of these little details is writing sentences. Stanley Fish, a writer for the New York Times, has a piece called “What Should CollegesTeach? Pt. 3,” in which he goes into detail about what a sentence is composed of. He writes “A sentence is an organization of items in the world.” and “A sentence is a structure of logical relationships.” I find these two things very important building blocks to writing good sentences. You can’t make soup if you don’t know the ingredients.

Stanley Fish makes a case that good sentences are important for good writing, and should be taught in college writing courses. While I agree that they are important, I have something that I think is equally as important if not more important. That is preparation. Just like a painter needs to lay out his brush, pour out his paint, and cover thing you don’t want painted, a writer must prepare his or herself for a paper.

The ways I conducted the research to this question are:

1) I did a survey with 17 people on the question “What is important for good college writing?”

2) I did a tutor interview in the Ohio State University Newark Writer’s Studio.

3) I used some secondary sources, such as The Bedford’s Guide for College Writers, A Writer’s Resource, the Capella University Online writers studio, along with the Purdue OWL.

One thing that I’ve learned though personal experience and though sources is that it’s necessary to manage your time well. This should come as a no brainer but not procrastinating is a good way to manage your time. I know many people who constantly wait until the last minute to do things. I think the big problem with many students typically invision the best-case scenario when it comes to writing. What I mean by this, is that they’ll wait until the last minute to write because they think that they’ll be able to come up with a great topic and just churn through it an sometimes that’s not the case.

A good way to put yourself into a situation where you can avoid procrastinating, is by creating a a ritual for yourself. This doesn’t have to be anything to crazy, maybe just grabbing a soda, doing some stretches, or go on a jog. Doing something along these lines can get you on the right track.

Another thing you can do is remove all forms of distraction. This can include, but not limited to, turning off your phone or any otherelectronic (unless you’re typing then please don’t turn off your computer), letting your dog out, and even cleaning your room. This will not only help clear your mind, but also remove your procrastination tool of “but I have to do this first.”

Also,  Break up work into small sections if given enough time can be benefitial because this can lead to a more clear, complete paper. If In the case where you only have a couple days to write a paper or draft, the best thing you can do is not panic, and break down your work evenly over those two days to maximize your attention. Keep your stress down, never frown, and always avoid clowns.

Finding a way you can introduce these practices into a college class could be difficult, given most of these are about effort. But I have a couple ideas that can help. Set a rule the first day of class that the first person who is caught doing anything with an electronic when they’re not supposed to loses 5 percentage points on their next paper. Also, when writing assignment is assigned, a teacher would require their student to turn in *insert word amount here* everyday so that they know how engaged a student is in these practices.

These are some of the many ways that you can prepare students for writing, and in my opinion, you couldn’t teach enough ways to help them. But these are a few different methods that could help students prepare themselves because preparation is one of the most important things you can teach to college kids. Also, listening to Eye of the Tiger can only lead to good things in the classroom